Carving Knife

#2
Again, very nice modeled. Believable knife.

Without any sign of the scale in the pic, to me, the handle seems a bit short (probably it's the other way around. Very big blade).
 

ZooHead

Active member
#3
Again, very nice modeled. Believable knife.

Without any sign of the scale in the pic, to me, the handle seems a bit short (probably it's the other way around. Very big blade).

You make a good point regarding scale. It's a common practice
to put a familiar object in a photograph to show scale.

Here's the zen of not doing that with a knife.

The handle is that familiar object I mentioned.
By the nature of it's design, it fits in the hand.

To assume the scale of the blade first, and not that the knife would
of course be designed to fit the hand, is not what I would expect.

I guess we look at things differently. For example I might
put a coin in the picture if it was a miniature, or oversized.

I now see it as reinforcing the sense of scale, thanks. :icon_thumbup:

I especially appreciate suggestions from people
with a different perspective as it makes me grow.


 
#4
The handle is that familiar object I mentioned.
By the nature of it's design, it fits in the hand.

To assume the scale of the blade first, and not that the knife would
of course be designed to fit the hand, is not what I would expect.
Actually I don't know if (or when) I read a picture different from others. In some cases I do. Im left handed and as an European have a different cultural background.

But like almost all people I 'read' the picture from top left to right bottom. I see the blade first, then the handle. Already from that I'd expect a longer handle.

Subconsciously we refer to things we know. So the nuts (wouldn't know how to call the things you see as circles in the handle) somehow determine the scale of the handle. And I have seen in reality kitchen knives with ridiculous short handles.

So with one look I get the impression of the short handle :smile:

Only if I think about it, I get it that I'm probably wrong (like knowing that you work in scale and so on).

The 'different perspective' is the reason why so many advertisement campaigns go wrong. The uneducated public (in this case, me) gets other images in their head :smile:
 
#9
Of course 'carving knife' is right for a "Tranchiermesser". Only we get the impression of a wood-carving-knive ("Schnitzmesser") because the verb is usually used in this context. To carve a turkey seems a bit strange.

But as Zoohead knows better than me, the knife is aptly named.
 

ZooHead

Active member
#10

Schnitzmesser google translates to carve.

So would you say you cut the turkey as opposed to carve it?

Here we might say he cut the cheese, and there is no knife involved at all. ;)
 
#11
Of course 'carving knife' is right for a "Tranchiermesser". Only we get the impression of a wood-carving-knive ("Schnitzmesser") because the verb is usually used in this context. To carve a turkey seems a bit strange..
"Carving the turkey" is a pretty common phrase in the U.S. However, we rarely hear "carving a chicken", and I've never heard of "carving a fish".
 
#13
cut the turkey as opposed to carve it
Directly translated into German "carve the turkey" would mean something like creating one out of wood (or ice or whatever you could carve).

We would cut it, yes, but usually not "schneiden" ('cut'), more "anschneiden" (also 'cut') and of course "tranchieren". There are other words that could be used, too (like "zerlegen"). To be honest, I'm not quiet the person you should asking about cutting up an animal (I'm a vegetarian for decades).

I read a lot of english books (fiction and non-fiction), but when I first met the 'carved turkey' I really wasn't sure if this was kind of slang, jokingly used or the usual language.

Even if I do this for more than 20 years, I still find some words I don't really know the meaning or forgot it as they are seldom used. Nowadays I use an e-reader with incorporated dictionary, but slang sometimes causes a problem there (I usually get the drift).

Movies I watch in their original-version, too, but usually with subtitles on (and it doesn't matter if the text is English or German) because some actors mumble heavily or I'm not used to the pronunciation. (Brando is a big mumbler but he did it very intelligible). In older movies they sometimes speak very fast to keep the runtimes down.

The reason for this is the same. Translations are often bad (translators belong not to the best paid lot). I like for example a good crime novel, but it's only a few years since even Raymond Chandler got a good treatment translation wise (Gisbert Haefs did that). Before that his works were often shortened below the 200 page mark (which says a lot if you think about the simple fact that his books usualy have more than 300 pages). Or Ross Macdonald. I read one of his books once in German (an older edition from the 70s or 60s) where the superfluous sex scenes where too much even for the 14 year old I was back then. It was pure pornography. I didn't like the guy especially as the plot was very unclear in the end.

Later on a friend told me, that I probably would like his books, and I tried it again. Was quiet true. So I happened to read the same book in English I mentioned before. Guess what? No sex scenes out of nowhere were they aren't needed and no pornography altogether. It was inserted in that German edition. I don't think they do stuff like this today.

And don't get me started about synchronization of movies.
 

podperson

Active member
#14
Lovely as always.

I think the smoothing threshold is off. The boundary between the sharpening gets smoothed out of existence near the tip.
 

ZooHead

Active member
#16
@Hasdrubal

Fascinating stuff. It can be so confusing, which is good for
comedy but not so much for pure translated communication.

Talk about confusion. I took a high school ski trip to
Switzerland once and my head was spinning listening
to Swiss German, Italian and French from all sides.

The teacher that took us on the trip was a Swiss German
and explained that most people there understood all the
other languages. But in certain circumstances would expect
the other to speak their language, like in a retail store.

They might even go as far as to pretend not to understand
the shop keeper to get them to speak in their language.

 

ZooHead

Active member
#17
Lovely as always.

I think the smoothing threshold is off. The boundary between the sharpening gets smoothed out of existence near the tip.

Thanks Pod, I'll have to look into that.
I'm trying different methods for blade making to see
how much control I can get on blade shape and contour.

 
#18
@Zoohead

Well, your teacher exaggerated a little bit. People from the German part of Switzerland have to learn French (of course you can learn Italian, too, if you want) in school, the others German (real German, not Swiss German which is a dialect). But most of us don't use those other language very much and forget most of it (and most people never learn to use it on a higher level. They wouldn't understand a news paper). So everybody else on your trip understood at best half of what was talked :smile:

As a young man, my French was better than my English. Forgot almost everything. Today I just ask if the other is speaking English. Only in the parts that border to each other the people really are bilingual.

As I said, Swiss German is a dialect. For example Frank would in all probability not understand a word when I talk. On the other hand, Swiss Germans usually understand quiet well the northern dialects (except Plattdeutsch). And we write in German, not Swiss German (except on a private level sometimes). So Swiss German literature is almost non-existent (neither are there any rules).

That people (especially those of the French part from Switzerland) pretend not to understand is true. Not only customers do that, salespeople, too. So if you don't know what a certain thing is called in French, in a bakery or a restaurant, you really can get into trouble while they understand perfectly well what you are saying.

And we have even problems to understand each other in the German part of Switzerland. I grew up in Zurich, live in Berne for several years. To this day I sometimes have to ask what's meant. There are words never heard of elsewhere and quiet a different pronunciation.

As there is a lot of chauvinism here around you sometimes are met with pure hostility as you open your mouth and the wrong dialect is coming out (i. e. as someone from Zurich in Berne. Not the other way around. Or very seldom). Once a shop keeper near a train station gave me my change in the smallest possible coins, very, very slowly, in the hope I had to catch a train... Didn't react to what I was saying, just had an ugly smirk on her face. (There are some reasons for this behavior. But it's stupid all the same on several levels. At least it doesn't happen that often anymore. They learn even here).

By the way, we have four national languages, German, French, Italian and Rumantsch. The latter is only spoken in that part of the world, and for a while seemed to vanish. Now it's resurrected (a bit).

Really lot of languages and dialects for this small country.
 

ZooHead

Active member
#19
@Hasdrubal

Horst Thomkie was his name. Probably spelled it wrong but he looked like an overweight musketeer.
Gourmet cook, which no one appreciated. One night he fixed something that is not eaten in the US,
horse meat, and didn't tell us until after. Everyone liked it until after the reveal,
I was the only one who didn't change my opinion.

 
#20
@Zoohead

The name sounds suspicious German (like from Germany).

I was the only one who didn't change my opinion.
That says a lot about you (only good things). By the way, it's not that common to eat horse meat here around. It happens, but most people don't.
 
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